Too late to talk about Xinjiang?
魏一帆 更新于2009年08月2日
I’ve wanted to write about Xinjiang and the aftermath of events because I lived there for several years. Despite trying several times, I have not written anything for a month. Many people have asked me over the past few weeks what I think really happened. They obviously have their doubts about the official version of events. So do I.
The issue of terrorism is an important one to address. The government maintains that the violence on July 5 was the result of an organized effort. Frankly, this seems dubious to me. Whether it is factual or not, the question of why would Uyghurs would want to do this remains. What conditions would lead to such violence?
I can only speak from my experience living and working there for several years. I only have stories to tell, some of which are based on hearsay. But they will give a sense of the frustrations in Xinjiang.
The day I arrived to teach at Xinjiang University, I noticed that none of the minorities wore traditional hats or veils. A student explained to me that it is not allowed. Nor are mustaches. He said if students are caught praying they face punishment, even expulsion. A fellow teacher confirmed this later.
One day a supervisor who was Han Chinese told me that Uyghurs have it very good because of preferential policies. They can have two children and it is easier to get into college. Later that week a Uyghur friend told me of a protest by Uyghur college graduates. He said none of them could find jobs and that the rate of unemployment is much higher than for Han Chinese.
One day I was teaching a group of seniors in college who were looking for jobs. One young man was frustrated because he said he encountered signs at a job fair that said: “Minorities need not apply.”
One day a Uyghur friend invited me to a traditional muslim banquet. I was the only non-Uyghur among several hundred. Drinking alcohol is not permitted in Islam but there was plenty of baijiu. Near the end of the night, one guest leaned over and said to me unconvincingly, “We are not supposed to do this but the Han make us [get drunk].”
One day I was teaching a class and asked, “What will Xinjiang be like in 50 years?” A Han Chinese girl raised her hand and answered, “All Uyghurs will finally be able to speak Chinese.” The government had just begun implementing a policy of Chinese only in all schools.
I answered: “It is very important for the development of Xinjiang for minorities to speak Chinese. It’s the only way to find good jobs. But what do you think will happen to the culture? Many of my Uyghur friends are worried that they will lose it. According to the research I am familiar with, there are better ways to implement this kind of language policy.” A Uyghur student behind her looked up at me with an expression of gratitude and awe. No one is allowed to point out weaknesses in government policy and get away with it except in a situation like this. I’m sure he had never heard that before.
For the past month I have censored myself because I did not want to criticize or even seem to criticize government actions in Xinjiang. I fear for my friends and my job. I’m also waiting for Southern Weekly to print more articles on the situation with interviews of people who can explain the situation more clearly and authoritatively than I can.
The only salient point I can make at this point is that while terrorism is a real danger, it tends to obscure the core issues. And as long as these issues go unresolved, the threat of violence will continue. Public discussion would help resolve these issues.
Perhaps my words are too late now that Xinjiang is largely out of the news cycle. But for my own peace of mind I need to write this. I have censored myself for the past month, contributing nothing to my column but editorial translations. This is because there is a culture of fear regarding Xinjiang which has caused me to keep quiet. This too is a kind of violence.
2009年 08月3日 12:40
The culture of the minority of China has almost vanished, while the gov is still propagating its harmony policy though Tourist TV program. Most Chinese people donnt know what exactly happened actually, my friends r all furious about the Kadeer by CCTV’s reports. What our Han know about those minority is nothing but only their colorful clothes and beauty scenes. It’s shamed.
carlzheng918 Reply:
08月 3rd, 2009 at 20:09
如果你知道少数民族解放前的真实生活情况，就明白人家没有必要为了满足你文人酸气而再去过茹毛饮血不得温饱的鬼日子。每个人都有权利去追求富裕舒适的生活。你是吃饱撑着说傻话。
2009年 08月3日 13:10
我觉得你对中国了解的不多，也许是语言不通的问题吧。凭感觉看问题难免偏颇。
2009年 08月3日 14:16
我认为他的看法是偏颇的,我的家在新疆,少数民族没有被强迫穿汉装,也没有被迫只学汉语,而且学校对于少数民族,学费是减免的.给予了很多的优惠,在首府乌市的街上,到处都有穿着民族服饰的人在随意走动,而这位先生却说政府是不允许的,而且说他在新疆呆过，我觉得这不是睁着眼镜说瞎话吗，实在有令人气愤．
urusgal Reply:
08月 3rd, 2009 at 14:31
朋友，请你把重点放在那位女生说的话上。否则气愤也是活该！
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:25
lawyerliu,
谢谢你的看法。我鼓励你回去仔细看一下我的文章。我并没有说少数民族服装不能穿。而且，我说语言的政策刚刚开始，还没有完成。每年夏天政府让少数民族老师到乌鲁木齐学习汉语。据我的记忆，安排2012年完全举行。
Best,
Tim
dannilp Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 14:29
Tim,
我在你文章中看到的确实有“not allowed”这个词：
The day I arrived to teach at Xinjiang University, I noticed that none of the minorities wore traditional hats or veils. A student explained to me that it is not allowed.
aurora09 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 22:35
在新疆高校，考虑到宗教信仰的复杂性，和年轻维族学生容易被狂热宗教分子利用的特点，的确有规定：在大学校园内不允许穿戴蒙面纱巾，缠头，黑长袍（我想TIM文中所指的traditional hats and veils 即是指此类服饰，TIM用词很谨慎，比较确切了）等带有明显宗教色彩的服饰。如果说不允许民族学生穿少数民族服装绝对是夸大其词和别有用心的谎言！！！
2009年 08月3日 14:28
Iit’s horrible that the culture unenlightened of Han chinese that be color of deeply feudalism assimilate the other up to be.Being minority originally is unfortunate in PRC.
信息不对称 Reply:
08月 3rd, 2009 at 15:08
朋友，你这说的是哪国的英语啊？看了半天没看懂。
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:30
urusgal,
I believe being a minority anywhere can be difficult. But for some reason many other minorities in China do not feel the same about assimilation into mainstream Chinese culture. For them it is not just assimilation (汉化）but a mix of modernization and globalization.
As a foreign observer I am curious as to why different groups see this process differently.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月3日 15:06
“The government had just begun implementing a policy of Chinese only in all schools.” You mean that the Uighur language is not allowed/taught in any schools in Xinjiang? Better go back there and do a serious investigation, my friend.
这个老外居然说新疆所有学校里只许教汉语，真是笑话。推广双语教育不是只允许教汉语。这就算了，真篇文章也就是些个人的anecdotes，就来冒充新疆专家。不是说他说的都是错的，但要是在新疆生活3年就可以以新疆专家的姿态写专栏，那我就是研究这位老外祖国的大师了。
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:38
信息不对称，
No, that is not what I mean. The policy is being implemented slowly. Teachers from the countryside are given the opportunity to study Chinese in Urumqi. If I remember correctly, the policy is supposed to be fully implemented by 2012 but it is likely to take longer than that.
另外，我没有说我是新疆的专家。我不是说在等南方周末采访更有权威的人来描述情况吗？你好像不明白我文章的意思。公开的讨论也许对情况有利，也许能够避免未来的暴力，但如果读者不仔细看而随便批评作者，没有人受到利益。
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月3日 17:27
我并不支持你这样的做法和任何人都看出来的不理性；对这个社会的研究仅仅靠对不同的人的了解，一段时间的观察，或者是说，“以上是我个人的看法”这样的表达是及不负责的，从逻辑的角度来说，这种结论是站不住脚的。原因有三：1，现在都在普及双语教学，2006年我们县城（吐鲁番地区某县），我是生长在新疆。2，中国有很悠久的历史文化，是世界著名的文明古国之一，上下五千年HISTORY，要想研究任何问题，如果是这样研究问题，那也太肤浅，你得懂历史，懂文化，懂政治等等 3，既然你写了这篇ARTICLE ,我就不得不考虑你的MOTIVE,IN OTHER WORDS,你站在什么样的角度上THINKING,我是一个爱读书的YOUNG MAN ,知道贵国有许多以理服人的逻辑大师，但我想您不具有这一点，至少没有给出透彻的分析和让人信服的观点，I KNOW THAT 贵国的人都很直爽，所以我也就不怎么婉转了。研究这样的问题让谁研究都得下毕生的精力，并没有什么终年捷径，十年，几十年可能都是必要的，因为得出一个符合历史的判断的结果是很难的，期待这方面的泰斗给出更好的文章，算是抛砖引玉吧
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:50
huhu2018178610,
谢谢你的看法。我希望你能够理解，这不是文章，仅仅是网站上的专栏。我当然有权利说“以上是我个人的看法，”这也说明跟南方周末的编辑没有什么关系。
请你看以上的答案，双语教育政策慢慢举行，可能到2012年才完成。不过，对我来说最关键的问题不是政策，而是对话，互相理解。目前新疆和整个国家对少数民族问题缺乏健康的对话。
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月3日 19:18
‘ One day a Uyghur friend invited me to a traditional muslim banquet. I was the only non-Uyghur among several hundred. Drinking alcohol is not permitted in Islam but there was plenty of baijiu. Near the end of the night, one guest leaned over and said to me unconvincingly, “We are not supposed to do this but the Han make us [get drunk].” ’
作者这段对于饮酒的论述似乎前后逻辑相互矛盾，让读者对它的真实性产生了怀疑。一开始，作者提到了自己是当晚宴会的“唯一的非维族人”，意指当天参加宴会的其他人都是新疆人，并没有汉族人在场。然而，在本段最后，那位客人又故作神秘的悄悄对作者说，“是汉族人强迫我们喝的”。既然已经说明了宴会上没有汉族人，那位客人是如何被“强迫”的呢？
cao2001516 Reply:
08月 4th, 2009 at 11:30
根据可兰经的指示，真正的穆斯林 是不能喝酒的，
维族 找借口，说自己作为 喝酒 是由于 汉族人 强迫的缘故！！
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:55
fredturtle,
谢谢你的问题。你说的对，逻辑有问题。我故意这样写，因为没有任何汉族在他的周围，并不可能汉族强迫他喝什么酒。我的意思是，维族人自己讲的道理有时候不对劲，缺乏说服力，常常为自己的问题怪汉族人。
Best,
Tim
wangyuan1222 Reply:
08月 6th, 2009 at 14:59
懂汉语更好！
1、你既然是这个意思（“维族人自己讲的道理有时候不对劲，缺乏说服力，常常为自己的问题怪汉族人。”），就应该在文章中明确的表达这个意思，以免造成更多人的曲解。你在文中这种模棱两可的表述，会让那些完全不了解新疆的西方人误解的。
2、关于少数民族文化传统这回事，你不可能完全了解，更不可能凭借几个个别访谈而彻底了解。每一个民族都是在世世代代的生活里来传递和延续自己的文化的，对于文化的包容和尊重，不是只有国外才有。我们中国人的包容力不必你们差。
3、那些汉化程度高的维吾尔族，是自愿还是被迫，不能只听一家之言。其实有很多维族人是觉得汉化装扮比较简单方便才穿汉服的。因为大学生是一个冲动的群体，所以新疆高校规定校内不能有那些装扮。这是出于稳定的考虑。你就因为一个学生和一个老师的片面之词，而写出这些极其不负责任、极其不客观的话语，会对新疆的稳定造成负面影响的，这你想过么。
4、说什么担心你的朋友，你这些不负责任的言论，对于你在新疆的朋友来说是一个潜在的威胁，你懂么。
5、不要以为你在新疆工作过3年就可以对新疆的事情妄加评断。这三年你所了解的人和事，只是皮毛的皮毛。
最后，说一句，一个理性的人一定会以公正、客观、中肯、实事求是的态度来看待事情，而不是你的这种以偏概全、以点概面的所谓的专栏文章。
所谓东西可以乱吃，话不能乱说就是这个意思。
没有调查就没有发言权。
如果你经过了广泛深入的调查，请出示证据，访谈问卷或谈话录音，有视频资料更好。让大家伙看看的你的调查范围和调查内容。
这样你的专栏文章才能站住脚。
2009年 08月3日 20:14
some Uyghur people will never satisfy，their final goal is to be the farther of new Uyghur nation。so let them go hell or sell to america。
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 10:58
carlzheng918,
I met some people like that. They will never be satisfied and they are quite difficult to talk with. However, most Uyghurs I met were not like this. I found that the more educated people are the more rational they are in discussing the situation.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月3日 21:48
AS kind of common sense, Han Chinese is unlikely to dispute with the Uyghur. GOV always favor them whether Han Chinese is right or not. I lived in south-east China, I did have some Uyghur school mate in the college, we’ve barely talked, just for once, one of them, drunk, threatened me to pass the ball to him, otherwise he would beat me. That’s what I have experienced in person. Han could be bully too, but I won’t fight Uyghur cause there would be a big problem ahead of me If I fight back. By the way, they don’t speak Chinese well, I think the only language amid them is Uyghur.
I am wondering if the author know the recently happened “fraud minority issue”, dozens of Han in Chongqing faked their ethnic group record in order to obtain the illegal score in the college entrance examination. They were found and lost their quality to apply for any college this year. They are totally wrong and paid for what they did. I agree that the minority should have policy preference in some degree as they have now. My point is I don’t believe what author said about the prohibition over their own language and tradition.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:03
derkin,
Yes, I did hear of that case.
I’m not sure what you mean about the “prohibition over their own language and tradition.” I did not say this.
I’m sorry to hear that you did not have any real conversations with Uyghurs. Frankly, I have not found many Uyghurs, especially young college students, who are willing to make friends with Han Chinese. You experience does not surprise me but it does sadden me. If Uyghurs want to be respected then threats like that must stop.
Best,
Tim
derkin Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 23:45
魏先生:
我不知道你的中文这么好，让我吃了一惊。
中国是一个广大的国家，风俗各异，习惯不一，比起少数民族来，汉人之间的差异并不小。我想地域歧视一点也不比民族歧视来得少。差异并不可怕，可怕或者说可悲的是缺乏理性解决问题的勇气和方法。拿你的祖国美国来说，美国是一个年轻的国家，美国人是一个年轻的民族，不比中国，胡汉几千年的战争和融合混血，东西南北的地理差异，这一切都让中国显得家大业大 尾大不掉。而且，你们还有代议政治（窃以为这是比互联网更加伟大的成就）。。。但我对于中国的民族和睦仍保有信心，汉人不是一个排外的民族，也许有点天朝上国的自负，但以我身边接触的人和事来说，绝大多数人都抱有道德底线，象印尼发生的种族仇杀不可能发生在中国。
我没有去过国外，我所知道的世界很小，似乎西方对于我们有很多偏见。我想西方了解中国远不及中国了解西方。或者我们开发得还不够久，或者我们和我们光荣的祖先割裂的太久，我不知道。
谢谢你的回帖。也感谢你对中国事务的关注。
另：在大学里我有回族 和哈萨克族的朋友。
祝好！
Derkin
derkin Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 23:47
更正：第3段的 “开发”应为 “开放”
2009年 08月3日 23:12
bullshit！
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:07
yiguiyu,
If you have nothing intelligent to say, refrain from commenting. Not only do you take away from the conversation, you also embarrass yourself.
Tim
2009年 08月4日 01:04
呵呵～～
看来语言、生活、文化都很重要啊～
2009年 08月4日 09:28
My comments:
1. I am glad to hear different voice in this column.
2. I am doubt the credibility of some points in the article regarding wearing hats and veils based on my own experience of travelling to Xinjiang. Even it was ture, it would not be representative.
3. There is a logical flaw in terms of the point that Uyghurs was forced to drink baijiu by Han. If it were because of their poverty and language obstacles, could the Chinese in the US violate the federal law and compalin of the Americans?
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:10
gangjiang,
Thanks for your comments. The point about the not wearing hats and veils only applies to schools and government institutions.
The logical flaw is intentional. Uyghurs blame Han for just about everything. My point was to show that they too are responsible for their own frustrations, much more than they seem wiling to admit.
Best,
Tim
gangjiang Reply:
08月 6th, 2009 at 01:54
Thanks Tim for clarifying those points.
Regards,
Gang
2009年 08月4日 11:10
Thank you Tim for speaking out after a long time of silence.
I feel sad for the tragedy happened in Xinjiang, I truly do.
As a Han, I too believe government was doing a good enough in XinJiang, otherwise there wouldn’t be this kind of violence. It’s even a bigger Frustration that more and more culture of all minority ethics is getting weaker.
I share same kind of frustration. As a Han, I have to deal with massive bureaucracy and terrible corruption of our government, every day of my business life. Depression, confusion, frustration, every day we have to face that, some time I just wonder how my government could do this to us people. When I’m watching TV or seeing a movie, frustration of culture rape by the more influential culture, especially American, often comes up. Look around, no Chinese is wearing real “Han” clothing, people follow western fashion magazine more than any Chinese tradition. People know Michael Jackson more than Confucian. People spend thousands of dollars to learn good English but wouldn’t patient enough to sit down to study our beautiful traditional Chinese eassies, ask how many people read through 古文观止.
Then what we do? Declare a war against America? Riots? Bomb public bus? Kill innocent people to express our opinion? Maybe it’s not the best way.
We have been progressing, and still are, we cherish hope, we do whatever within our capability to strive for progress, our born rights, freedom of speech, real democracy, day by day, inch by inch.
It is wrong to kill innocent people, no matter how great your purpose is, no matter what kind of God you believe in.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:15
hbinvest,
Thank you for your comments. They are very thoughtful.
The killing in Urumqi was a terrible tragedy. In no way do I condone that violence. I would never try to defend anyone who would do that.
My hope is that there can be dialogue so that future violence might be averted. Of all the people I have spoken with recently from Xinjiang, both Uyghur and Han, no one believes that was the end.
There is nothing else I can do but offer this kind of dialogue on my column. Thank you for participating in it.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月4日 11:23
hah，I am really at speechless! In my opinion,The first step to express what you want to say is ensure the word used in the article are spelt correctly!
汗，不知这位大师英语怎么学的，好多单词好像拼错了！！
hbinvest Reply:
08月 4th, 2009 at 15:02
yes you are right, sorry for that.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:17
monkey2862,
If you insist on criticizing others’ spelling, then be prepared to be criticized for your poor grammar. You have some very elementary mistakes.
However, I would prefer you participate in the discussion next time. I would like to hear what your thoughts are on the situation in Xinjiang.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月4日 13:30
Some points of the author seems to be very irrational.But without doubt, our government and our Party need to improve the policies and political behaviors in Xinjiang Autonomous Area. terrible things had passed. Now, in my opinion,our govenment have to reflect those things as follows:why those violent events always break out in the places our minority people live in? have we do some actions that our minority peple don’t like? I don’t like our government deals with everything in the same way.For exanmple, simply reach a conclusion that those things are alway agitated by some antagonistic force while without reflection in peace.And then, in CCTV, our government would pile on the agony how great change had taken place in those areas .our party needs to bear in mind that now is a modern ara,different from the past time.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:19
yuanqp,
Thank you for your comments.
I have some of the same questions. However, not all minorities react violently. Many are quite happy with their situation. One of my questions is why Uyghurs and Tibetans are so different from these groups.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月4日 15:29
这个~我觉得完全是视角的问题，TIM必竟是外国人，批评比认同更容易些。
2009年 08月4日 17:57
I am a Chinese Han nation person lived in Chongqing in southwest of China.
I have never been to Xinjiang. All I know about them is bad information given by government.
Actually I have to say maybe I do not know the real Xinjiang.
2009年 08月4日 18:25
Different culture,so criticized like this.
2009年 08月4日 21:35
也只有南方周末才会生拉硬拽，把不普世的责任都推到中国身上。也只有南方周末的视角，才会把少数极端分子的分裂行径描绘成是因为中国政府对维族打压、汉化造成的。
南方周末，你们的心眼确实歪了。
mae5945 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 08:42
恐怕不是南方周末心眼歪了，而是您想得太多了。我欢迎这样的文章，并不是喜欢那些听起来不舒服的言论，而是喜欢听不同的声音。（媒体是否应该为政治服务？服务的方式是什么？大家的声音都一样吗？如果是那样子，我想我们根本不需要媒体。）
不管Tim的动机是什么，也不管他的文章是不是客观，至少他给我们提了个醒，要尊重不同民族的文化（在这点上或许我们真的做得还不够，否则他为什么要拿这点做文章？）。
还有，我觉得汉人对于少数民族的文化应多一份真诚的欣赏和敬仰，而不是像看风景一样对待他们的文化。
我不太了解新疆，有什么不对的欢迎指正。
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:26
laodanshishei,
谢谢你的评论。上面的文章是我写的，没受到任何编辑的建议。而且我说这是我个人的看法和经验，请你下次贴评论至少看两遍。
另外，我的意思不是说中国政府的政策是最关键的，维族人自己也有责任，尤其那些惨烈的杀手。我只是说，情况比媒体的报道更复杂，值得谈论一下。
Best,
Tim
wingyhp Reply:
08月 10th, 2009 at 23:06
不是南方周末的心眼坏吧！做媒体的就应该报道事实的真相，不仅是国家政府想听什么声音，更要是读者想知道的事实真相，也就是说媒体要有不同的声音。再者，南方周末的“从这里读懂中国”不是随便说的。
我不是个关心政治的人但我认为Tim的文章表达的意思应该是要尊重并保护维族的文化，而政府的汉语教育将会影响到这一点（若我理解错了希望Tim指正）。我认为汉语教育是维族与中国其他民族相互沟通交流的重要的，或者说，唯一的渠道。政府应该在汉语教育和保护当地文化以及维族人们的接受程度上找到一个平衡点。
我对政治和新疆都不了解，只是看到上面说南方周末心眼坏就心血来潮说两句，若有不妥言辞请原谅！
2009年 08月4日 22:30
“This is because there is a culture of fear regarding Xinjiang which has caused me to keep quiet. This too is a kind of violence”
如果要说这句话，我想中国人应该更有权利….美国日本在允许”疆独”入境时，我们何尝的反抗何尝不是一种quite，何尝不是一种反抗，有用吗？美国人、日本人想过我们的感受吗？
2009年 08月4日 22:54
I respectfully dispute the central point of the article by Tim that violence on July 5 was not the result of an organized effort. My evidence comes from an article posted on the homepage of New York Times Webiste last week, in which the American reporter accounted his interview with two dozen people in Urumqi. I am very impressed about what a local Muslim Uighur told the reporter ”It was horrible for everyone,” ”The rioters were not from here. Our people would not behave so brutally.”
Even Muslim Uighurs see ”outside force” as the main reason for the riots.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:37
gangjiang,
I read that article as well. My understanding was that the Uyghurs from that quarter of Urumqi meant that it was Uyghurs from other parts of Xinjiang whom they did not welcome. It did not necessarily mean they were organized terrorists.
I simply do not trust the official Chinese reports because they are not independent. I am waiting to see independently verifiable proof of organized terrorist activity. So far all I have seen are accusations and circumstantial evidence.
Best,
Tim
2009年 08月4日 23:37
May be it’s too early for you to talk Xinjiang.
As a teacher, you must have teached the students to be honest and responsible. However, which you quoted in the article are just “hearsay”. Then you positively wrote “hearsay” “for your own peace of mind”? Without any proof?
Moreover if these messages which were wrote in the article are not defenitly reflect the whole truth, I do not know how can you get peace ?
“A Uyghur student behind her looked up at me with an expression of gratitude and awe. ”
——Frankly speaking, while I was a junior student, I used to looked my foreign teacher of awe for the simple reason that I can not fully understood what he said but pretended listening carefully, nodding my head at the same time. Such expression of gratitude is also just for his looking at me. I’m sure that many students knows that the rate that foreign teachers pay attention to an ordinary student is extremely low.
You presented your opinion in the article that Uyghur student’s learning Chinese is a kind of cultural invasion, then how about the Uyghur student’s and even other minorities’ together with Han students’ learning English? Hope you have the consciousness that you are the one teaching !
Whatever has happened, we Chinese upholds the belief that we are a big and will be a harmonious family, disregarding the identity of ourselves.
魏一帆 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 11:44
dannlip,
My conscience is clear is because I told readers some stories were based on hearsay. Take it for what it is worth. I also said that I am waiting for Southern Weekly to interview other people who can describe the situation more clearly and authoritatively than I can. Frankly, I can tell you more stories but I am afraid that my friends in Xinjiang would run into trouble if I made them public.
The students I was teaching were English majors. The one student who looked up with awe and gratitude had the best English in the class. It was too easy for him and his grades were slipping because he was bored. After that day, however, he became the best student he could.
Learning English is one subject for you. If you took all your subjects in English and were not given the opportunity to become literate in Chinese, then you would have a similar situation to Uyghurs.
Thank you for your comments. I hope you will continue to contribute to the discussion.
Best,
Tim
dannilp Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 15:18
TIM：
谢谢你的回复，但就你的回复，我还想提出几点看法。
第一，关于“hearsay”的疑惑。就我们作为读者所了解的情况，你在新疆居住过三年，这三年应该有许多的见闻才是，我相信，用你自己的亲身经历来写一篇文章是足够的。或者说，本人就这一点感到有那么些奇怪。当然，你确实在文章开始说出了“HEARSAY”，用来显示你是客观和公正的。可事实上，你并没有指出，哪些事情是“听说”的不是嘛？读者要如何区分呢？
第二，作者需要考虑文章会产生什么样的影响才是我提到responsibility的原因。你的写作运用的是英语，相信很多读者也是Westerners，加上你的身在中国以及在新疆教书三年的背景，相信你写的文章，对他们来说，是非常有说服力的。并且，你已经成了事实上的“权威”了，不然，也不会有“ Many people have asked me over the past few weeks what I think really happened ”这一现象的出现。再加上你文章中所说的，有些是“听说的”，又进一步增加了可信度。人们的思维总是趋向于相信“权威”，我们是不是可以理解为，对他们来说，你文章中的就是真实呢？
第三，关于人内心活动的描述。我是中文专业的学生，但我曾在英语专业旁听他们的专业课，对于部分英文专业的学生的实际英语水平我不敢恭维。当然，我没有打算和你讨论你所教授的维族同学水平如何。我举自己的例子，只是为了说明，人的任何一个眼神，可以有很多种不同解释。一个人的内心活动，不一定是其他人可以准确无误的了解。
谢谢你对我们国家少数名族文化保护方面问题的关注。在我们所了解到的资料中，类似问题也有很多专家学者提出，希望能够引起政府的重视，各种保护措施能够进一步加强和巩固。但我们明白，在世界范围内来说，我们国家是发展中国家，各种工作必然面临困难，一切努力都需要时间，因此，我们始终对我们国家抱着希望。同样，也希望在各类媒体，尤其是某些发达国家的报道中，我们所看到的不是指责和歪曲部分事实，或者只显示一些片面的事实。
当然，我还得抱歉一下，我的英语也不那么好，留言里相信也有不少语法用词方面的错误。但是很高兴看到你可以用中文回复，相信你中文水平不错。
Best
dannilp
2009年 08月5日 02:24
?
2009年 08月5日 02:25
首先为所有乌鲁木齐事件中惨死的无辜生命和他们的家属祈祷。
一直期待能有大规模的烛光祈祷或者白色鲜花来祭慰他们的在天之灵。
死难者的鲜血总是为活着的人流的。
这场恐怖事件实际的破坏力远远超出和预想和天灾。我们必定还会反复提起此事，被它所伤害
2009年 08月5日 02:26
历史上任何弱小的人类和民族都有一个共性，只知贪婪索取而不知感恩。
人类无止境的欲求，连神都无法满足。
欲求无法被一一满足的健忘人类，连神都被谩骂和诅咒，何况是一国政府和某个民族。
世界上各个部落和民族文化的本质和渊源在《金枝》一书中有着绝妙考证和研究。人类的凶残大都来自于恐惧。真正的黑暗是那些陌生事物。
我们都爱新疆，可有几人能说真正了解这片广袤神奇土地上错综复杂的历史？互相之间缺乏真正的深度了解，弱势和强势之间的张力。不要说少数民族，就连汉族也同样面临本源文化式微，信仰缺失的危机。
来自生存竞争的恐惧和习惯依赖的逃避心理，让找寻理由生起事端的动机非常容易被合理化。那些无端抱怨和负面心态可以被理解和原谅，但是沾满无辜死难者鲜血的那双手，永远也绝不能被原谅。任他是谁！
将问题简单化处理以求暂时太平必留后患，担负幼稚的义愤填膺更会渐行渐远。
我们的原则和指路明灯只有一个：将“中国人”三字牢牢刻在心头。不是任何一个民族，而是中国人，不是“汉语”而是“国语”。
2009年 08月5日 02:28
少数民族优惠政策是毋庸置疑的事实，多少少数民族干部因此而受惠和走出国门。少数民族优惠政策需要进一步完善和修改，也是毋庸置疑。
但也许，互相尊重和欣赏比一味单方向施予更有长效。真正做过善事的人都知道，善事不好做。做了善事也最好不要留名或者大肆宣扬。
因为“过度施予”即是“剥夺”。
看看这世界上多少恩将仇报的例子。
人性的复杂和奇怪在任何一个民族都一样。我们没有解药和一劳永逸的无缺政策，我们只有问题。如果幸运，能拥有直面自己国家历史和未来的眼光和勇气。
2009年 08月5日 11:24
这篇文章提出了一点东西，就是：在中国，大众对于政府的政策是没有权力去评论的，也没有合法的途径评论。
这个是事实。那么如此一来就会导致政策的一意孤行，直至出现问题。
而在新疆，很明显，即使有所谓的优惠政策，少数民族的就业率也比不上汉族，生存环境也不如汉族。
这些问题如果不解决，新疆的局势也不会有缓和的可能。
2009年 08月5日 13:28
“民族不同”成了懒于解释的问题的借口。
全国哪个民族的老百姓政策的话语权都不算高；全国各地各个中学，不仅要穿校服，遇到教学评估，还要剪短发，连头发都不能自己决定；没有北京户口同样进不了很多单位；新疆的学校教汉语，全世界都在学英语；很多毕业生不走后门塞红包得不到事业编制，他们“ are not supposed to do this but the”社会风气“ make ”他们。但这些共通的问题放在新疆就成了民族问题了。
我们还是忘掉“民族”，解决问题吧，别让民族这个雪球越滚越大了。
2009年 08月5日 13:57
I agree with what the Chinese girl said. In 50 years, the Chinese language is likely to be widely used among the Uyghurs for social interaction. But I don’t think their culture will fade away. Just take Guangdong Province as an example. Most people there speak Cantonese, a vastly different language from mandarin. Despite the promotion of mandarin for several decades, the Cantonese culture has been preserved, and even spreads. The aim of promoting mandarin is to make it easier for peolpe from all around China to communicate with each other. In my opinion, a standard language is just a tool for communication rather than an extinguisher to a particular culture. As “aurora09″ said, mandarin should be “国语” instead of “汉语”.
wingyhp Reply:
08月 11th, 2009 at 00:06
I absolutely agree with wxdaniela. I am a Cantonese and now I can speak mandarin, English,Janpanese too.Cantonese never be an element that stop me from learning other language or culture.Contrary,after I learned more language and culture I can introduced Contonese and the local guangdong culture to other people.What I want to say is,you should have the capability to communicate with the people who do not know your culture or language.And then you just can protect what you really want to protect.We Contoneses(广东人) love Contonese(粤语)but almost all of us can speak mandarin,because we know that only using mandarin can we communicate with other Chinese.Language is a tool for cummunication nor something of culture invasion,I think that is why we should learn English and why mandarin should be “国语” instead for “汉语”.
2009年 08月5日 14:53
We are a group of patriotic (China-lovers) local-born 2nd generation Chinese Malaysians who have worked, lived & studied for more than 10 years in Australia but now residing in Malaysia. We would like to advise our Chinese blood brethrens in the Mainland so as not to be unduly influenced by by Westerners, especially those from US, Canada, Australia & N Zealand etc who have the benefits of, after having thoroughly wiped out or at best bannished them to the various native reserves all their indigenous Indians/aborigines/Maoris etc, & thus able to afford to pass judgements or point an accusing finger at China’s perceived ill treatment of its Tibetan/Uighur minorities. China has treated its minorities too humanly & civilly that has somehow encouraged them to appear to be totally ungrateful & greedy for more concessions. It is time China requires that all Chinese learn to speak & write Mandarin Chinese on top of their native tongues & all educational institutions be taught in only one national language.
Now let us tell you how Muslims, once they ascend to power, will treat non-Muslims as in the case of Malaysia:
.Chinese schools are only allowed up to primary 6 & all such schools are only privately funded. State fundings only apply to Malay schools.
.Malay language is the only medium of instruction of all secondary up to tertiary institutions/universities
.all students must obtain a minimum credit in the Malay language before one can be admitted into any university irrespect of whether one has all ‘A’s on other subjects
.all commercial signboards must have the Malay language written bigger than any other languages
.all the mosques are state-funded whereas no such privileges are ever extended to Chinese temples & Christian churches. Even the Chinese Kuan Yin statues must not be higher than the domes of the mosques
.all the top posts of the government, civil service, army, police & other govt-linked private companies etc are only reserved for the native Muslim Malays
.there is severe discriminations/quota imposed on allocations/trade licenses/employment opportunities/scholarships etc… to non-Muslims in all political, economical, cultural & other social activities
.Chinese are threatened with govt-sponsored pogroms/imprisonments/persecutions etc if we dare to make noise, let alone opposing them
.all those who marry Muslims must covert to Islam. All children born in a Muslim home are automatic Muslims & they are not allowed to change their religion when they grow up. Only Muslim children can inherite assets/monies etc from their Muslim parents. Apsotacy is forbidden & punishable by death.
.there are many more persecutions which are too lengthy to list here….
These white folks simply ignore these injustices all over the world but they sure like to pick on China as a whipping boy. These are all part & parcel of the Western ploys to destabilise China & better still if they somehow result in the break-up of China into many warring states. So, my Chinese compatriots, be extra wary of such conspiracies!
aurora09 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 23:51
in most romote places in Xinjiang poor Uigur villagers are bullied and tortured by their own Uigur local leaders. Han leaders will not do this and Uigur villagers prefer Han local leader to help them resolve problems under some circumstance (these same words are given to many Han lecturers by Uigur students in collage who come from romote places in Xinjing).
Han local leaders mostly are very careful not to excite or irritate the sense of “unfair”. they put “union” in the first all the time when handle things related with Uigur.
If someone ask why Uigur killed so many Hans in a cold bloody and hellish way, Han people who have been working there in Xinjing for many years and witnessed their family members buchered by “those Uigur” cried out WHY thousand times already.
2009年 08月5日 17:42
Without mentioning USA’s track record of invading musilim contries, I agree with most of your ideas in this article. The general feeling of Chinese concerning the way we treat uighurs and tibetans is reminiscent of how centuries ago westerners feel treating China and other less developed contries.
But is it true that by educating uighurs how to behave like Han Chinese, they will reep the benefit of progress and prosperous? I have no answers here. And I believe the both sides have genuine reasons for discussions. However I have to point out the improvent of the minorities’s lives in the past three decades.
I would rather critising more on how the govenment scensorship machine would make up unproven “facts” to theme the propaganda. That is plain stupidness and cowardness.
Hope your article wouldn’t be harmonised
2009年 08月5日 17:54
少数民族是被汉化了么？ 我看根本不是被汉化，而是被西化。是西方的可口可乐、牛仔裤等西方文化同化了维族人。
2009年 08月5日 19:18
首先很感谢一个外国朋友对中国内政的关心。我知道你说的不是谨慎的经过论证经得考验的言辞，所以你很聪明的说这是你的个人观点。我想说两点，麻烦了解了中国的历史至少是最近几年新疆周边国家所发生的恐怖活动再做评价。因为报刊也是公共资源，你没有来由的几笔是很占地方的，否则我会怀疑你写专栏的动机。相信你不是为了稿费，难道是为了表现你自己独特的立场，满足一下虚荣心。第二，美国人和其他发达国家的政府会对外国的移民不设置门槛吗？为甚么，很重要的原因是如果外国人的文化不能融入美国的话会给社会带来麻烦。尽管新疆是中国的，但是文化毕竟有差异，就业问题，企业愿意选择一个需要培养的人还是选择一个即战力。再说这只是企业行为，而非政府行为。看看中国政府对少数民族的优惠政策，你就会发现对我们这些汉族人还是有些不公的。最后我认为人只要是朝全面发展的道路上走，就没有必要再纠缠民族特色了，难道你们愿意回到古老的欧洲固守自己的传统吗？美国的印第安后裔都该回到丛林里吗？不要把别的国家和民族以传统当成你们的活化石，保存起来，给你们这些文明人赏玩研究嘛？世界是发展的，时代也在进步。祝你晚安
2009年 08月5日 20:48
as i known, most of american are honest,but from your article ,obviersly,you are lying .
你是一个外来的和尚，但显然没念好China这本经
2009年 08月5日 22:00
Hello Tim
I am very sympathetic towards your dilemma in which you have to keep quiet, and I believed that you are telling the truth as you think. I am very interested your systematic thought on the multi-language education and the religious conflict, by which i mean at least the inability to exercise Muslim tradition in Xingjiang. Hopefully there is any channel in China that i can get your thought from you. If you can not and you do want to talk about it with me, i would be glad to provide my email and we can discuss about it.
I think the Government in that region is not a well-functioned government to solve the civil issue.They need to try more carefully tested and publically beneficial policies. More recourse should be implemented into the region if PRC hope to maintain a legitimate sovereignty over the region, without the foreign doubts. I hold these believe because i think it is self-evident that something must be wrong if large amount of people are willing to risk their life for a certain purpose. However, I do believe PRC have the legitimate sovereignty over the Xinjiang, and the willingness to provide order and commonwealth in the region, therefore i have following question i would like to discuss with you:
I To what extend can the riot be identified as the religious conflict between mainstream Atheist Han society and the Muslim Uyghurs?
II What makes Uyghurs as well as Tibetan react different towards the widely implemented minority policy in China? Is that the Buddaism and Muslim makes it different?
III How much religious free exercise and the economic privilege would the government like to grant to the Uyghurs?
IV Is it always convincing to justify the violent law enforcement by the “threat to Sovereignty and social stability”? How much should PRC do to make it more convincing to the internatoinal community and the minorities in China?
V What do you think a regular Han Chinese can do to help the Xinjiang people, given that Han themselves do not have direct influence over public policy?
Best,
Robert
2009年 08月5日 22:02
The Item III i mean the free exercise and privilege in response towards the riot.
2009年 08月5日 22:16
？
aurora09 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 22:18
i tried to finish my comments but failed again…
aurora09 Reply:
08月 5th, 2009 at 23:07
tried so many times i realized there is a name in my following artical not allowed to be mentioned thus could not pass the supervision.
so i change it to 那个没有文化的狂妄的维吾尔族老太太。
2009年 08月5日 22:19
我们自然不能期待TIM给我们一个听起来舒服的看法。没有亲历事件的他保持审慎的态度是可以理解的。这是一起非常恐怖和残忍的屠杀事件。错综复杂。
他在文章中提到所听到的，某些维吾尔族人的很个人角度的言论，是一种很小心的纪实。但是我们可以看得出有种倾向。这是有原因的。
据我所知所经历的，在新疆维吾尔族人见到外国人少不了抱怨几句，而汉族人多忙着跟外国人练习英语或者请人到家里做客，显显主人风度。这当然不是绝对的，但是很明显。在非洲，从上到下习惯于伸手要，跟外国人自揭家丑。TIM听到的抱怨灌满他的耳朵的时候，倾向就产生了。往往这些人都有诉求与外和夸大其词的倾向，而不问自己为什么。喝酒也好，失业也好。
我们没必要买这个单。
也绝不买这个说法！
2009年 08月5日 22:20
无论国际上是谁在幕后操纵，那个没有文化的狂妄的维吾尔族老太太都不是我们仇恨的理由和最终对象。
但我们需要TIM旁观者的姿态和角度，他的第三者身份，他的质疑和冷静。我们需要像他这样愿意慢慢敞开来和我们对话的国际人。
我们的胸襟和气度，智慧和勇气将决定我们是否在一次次浴火中涅槃重生。
2009年 08月6日 00:42
Thanks for writing this Tim - it’s never too late.
The question of assimilation is very interesting, but I definitely don’t have any answers. It is a topic that I would consider more seriously for my dissertation if it weren’t so sensitive.
~Jen
2009年 08月6日 05:08
Tim,
There are multiples issues here which you are discussing and all of them important. Here is a narrative from a Han Chinese’s perspective.
Issue #1) Culture assimilation - As a Chinese looking comparing China today with the Old China (before Culture revolution), I can only say that the Western Culture is bent on destroying Chinese Culture. In major cities Chinese people are forced to use English names, learn English, and practice English simply to get better jobs. The traditional Chinese arts such as Chinese Opera, Chinese music, and Chinese Calligraphy are replaced by western style rock music, hollywood movies, and oil paintings. Now if Expats such as yourself would stop shoveling Western culture and beliefs down our throats, that would make a lot of Chinese people a lot happier.
Issue #2) Unfair Employment - As a teacher, Tim you should know very well your own salary compared with that of the locals. For corporations, the on-going rate for Caucasian English teachers (I am not sure if you are one) in Shanghai is about 12,000 RMB per month, at least. That’s about 6 times the salary of local English teachers. In fact, most of the Expats in China such as yourself get paid about 5 to 6 times more than locals (if not more) doing essentially the same thing and have an easier time of getting employed.
Time, have you ever considered 1)why you are getting paid more and 2)complained about it? Personally I find it ironic that Expats such as yourself complain about the Hans enjoy preferential treatments in employment over the minority races in China, while ignoring the one simple fact that Caucasians such as yourself enjoy by far the largest amount of racial preference in just about anywhere around the world.
Some other items to consider: In the US, the average African American population have much higher unemployment rates with significantly less average salary. The Asian population in the US while being considered “model minority” make up a grand total 0% of the CEOs in Fortune 500 companies (Jerry Yang used to be the only one before he was forced out of Yahoo). Statistically African Americans will head to jail at a much more frequent rate than any other race. Some half of all black males in the US will spend time in Jail in their lives. Looking from the outside, minorities in the US are being treated terribly unfairly by the majority Caucasians. Does this mean that the rest of the world should simply urge different minority groups in the US to revolt against the government, or declaring independence, as the Westerners often demand that from China?
2009年 08月6日 10:29
文章的开头,首先向死难的人表示哀悼!(无论罹难者的种族,生命是最可贵的,不应被践踏)。
本人的父母是当年的上海知青，我在新疆生活、学习了12年，小学5年级时回到上海。新疆有我的童年和少年，记忆中有浩瀚的大漠，巍峨的天山，甘甜的瓜果，还有我曾经的维族伙伴。
那时的生活，虽然物质并不丰富，但却是快乐的。夏天，我和同伴们去瓜田，河边嬉闹；冬天，大家常打雪仗或烤土豆吃。这其中就有他-阿童木（绰号，v族）。
阿童木长的大眼浓眉，妈妈说他长的像《英俊少年》里的主人公。他的爸爸是我所在区的医院医生，医术高超，受到所有各族人的敬重。有次我去他家做客，马医生（阿的爸爸）给我吃手抓羊肉，那味道我现在也忘不了。由于我的脖子在出生时受过外伤，在我读小学前，由马医生亲自为我做了矫正手术。应该讲，那个时期，民族矛盾有，但决不激烈。
回到上海后，我仍然十分关注新疆。因为那里可以讲是我的第二故乡，但陆续传回的消息却令人心情越来越沉重。90年代，新疆连续出现排汉事件，有杀人的，炸公车的，袭警的，我记挂的阿童木一家去了德国，他的哥哥开了诊所。
7.5事件和更早的时候我就常想，这是为什么？v族为何恨我们？从我自己的生活经验并查阅了一些资料来看，我有这么一些看法。
1、v族人可以说和我们是完全的两个种族，这和满族，蒙古族都不相同，无论是语言、信仰还是风俗习惯。他们对自己的文化是非常保护甚至是排外的，因此，汉文明对他们来讲不但难以接受，甚至是不受欢迎的。我不知道去新疆旅游的汉族同胞有多少这样的认识：男人盯着v族妇女是极不礼貌的；女士不能穿着过于少、透和紧身；上顿刚吃过炸猪排或狮子头是不应该对v族大喘气的，也不能去对方家里（对于不吃猪肉的穆斯林来讲，这种味道太敏感，敏感到他会和你玩命）；左右手该怎么用？等等问题。现在的学术界已经有了这种共识，民族的冲突更多的是文化间的冲突，我们的旅行社，我们的媒体想到过这些吗？
2、当年的王震将军进新疆，大批人员进入，如何生活？将军在仔细研究过新疆的情况后，采取的方法之一是大军屯垦！大家不要小看这屯垦，它解决了大量外来人口对本地人的冲击，保持了当地人的生活方式，使物价不至于由于人口激增而大幅上扬，从而保持当地人的生活水平。现在，由于人口的大量导入，新疆已变的和内地其他任何一个大城市没什么区别，由此，当地人（v族）当然的以为汉人抢走了他们的生活，抢走了他们的工作。
讲到这里，我不由想起一句老话：“远人不服，修文德以来之。”杀戮和镇压是我这两天看到最多的字眼，我认为，镇压首恶是必要的，但这只能是手段而不是目的。每个死去个体的周围都有数个乃至数十个与之相关的亲戚、朋友，他们的仇恨只会越来越广，越来越多。君不见巴以间纠缠几十年，牵涉数代人的冤冤相报吗？那可真是，杀了某一个，千千万万个站起来，那将是怎样的恶梦！
此时此刻，我想讲的是斗则两害，正中某些人下怀。必须严惩首恶，安抚汉人，同时更尊重当地文明辅以长远规划，徐徐图之才是使新疆真正融入中华之计。
2009年 08月6日 10:29
就我所知法国是不允许穆斯林穿带传统服饰的，理由是要保护人权（女权）。事实上法国很有自信，他先验地认为西方式的女权一定要在本国公民中推广，无论信仰如何。如果这种行为在欧洲得到认可，那么中国做也没有任何可以疑义或者意图疑义的地方。何况，中国从没有颁布国家性法令去约束民族着装。是现代化的现实在形成这样一种氛围。我的新疆学生中就没有女孩子愿意带什么面纱、围巾。原因很简单，这妨碍她们享受现代生活。
如果你的所谓文化保护的说辞能够成立，那么首先要叫屈的是汉族。因为西装领带也不是汉族的传统！我自己的同事中也有来自美国或者欧洲的，但是坦率地说他们都很尊重不同的文化认同，没有人试图去表现那种带有伪善气质的文化同情。如果要说，他们更愿意说说印第安人的文化消失问题。
我个人可以用英语写，但是对不起，在中国就要尊重中国的’普世”规则。请您也要明白这点。
2009年 08月6日 15:47
[...] I just saw this commentary by an American who taught at Xinjiang University for three years, published on the China Southern [...]
2009年 08月6日 22:19
a friend of mine wrote this :
I suspect we have no argument among ourselves with the principle of granting ethic preferential (unequal) treatment in specific matters conceived to be caused by discriminative conditions, in so far it is intended and likely to ameliorate/eradicate those conditions. I accept this as naturally as I have accepted and have advocated for a graduated tax system for all civilized societies…
However, discussing the various aspects and dimensions of its implementation, subjecting our good wishes/rationales/assertions to intellectual and even empirical testing, would likely enhance its chance of achieving its goals.
Economic deprivation that is clearly based on motivational /cultural habits—to address this beyond general non-preferential social assistance would probably contribute to its persistence(reduced incentive) as well as challenging the fundamental principle of meritocracy.
We have all witnessed during our travel that it is always the Han migrant workers that take up the hardest/hazardest construction work, and that is also in minority areas, as no locals would ever consider it.
Those based on unequal opportunity as a result of covert/ prejudiced / irrational discrimination that permeates the fabric of society would necessitate institionalized policies to rectify/readdress, particularly that have had a long history of racial and ethnic based discrimination.
But the case for extending it into the domain of criminal law ((catch fewer and give less capital punishment (than their Han counterparts), and practise more leniency towards them)) could easily be interpreted as entailing unequal rights, and impeding efficient elimination of bad apples within any subgroup
And granting exceptions to the one/two child policy to all minorities (minority when judged with the Chinese census is misleading, as 8 millions may easily surpass populations of most average nations) has few justification for the present demographic scenario, with a rather homogeneous infant/child mortality rate throughout the nation.
One should be cognizant of the fact that preferential treatment does devalue the accomplishment of people because of the social group to which they belong. and in many situations may benefit the more privileged people within minority groups at the expense of/detrimental to the least fortunate ones within majority groups.
It is also relevant to point out that in France/Sweden/UK, affirmative action is prohibited by law, despite of the existence of underprivileged subgroups.
—————————– The Malaysian New Economic Policy or NEP serves as a form of affirmative action. Malaysia is the only country in the world which provides affirmative action to the majority because in general, the Malays have lower income than the Chinese who have traditionally been involved businesses and industries [26]. Malaysia is a multiethnic country, with Malays making up the majority of close to 52% of the population. About 30% of the population is Malaysians of Chinese descent, while Malaysians of Indian descent comprise about 8% of the population. Government policy provides preferential placement for ethnic Malays, and 95% of all new intakes for the army, hospital nurses, police, and other government institutions are Malays. As of 2004, only 7% of all government servants are ethnic Chinese, a drop from 30% in 1960. All eight of the directors of the national petroleum company, Petronas, are Malays, and only 3% of Petronas employees are Chinese. Additionally, 95% of all government contracts are awarded to ethnic Malays.[27] (See also Bumiputra) The mean income for Malays, Chinese and Indians in 1957/58 were 134, 288 and 228 respectively. In 1967/68 it was 154, 329 and 245, and in 1970 it was 170, 390 and 300. Mean income disparity ratio for Chinese/Malays rose from 2.1 in 1957/58 to 2.3 in 1970, whereas for Indians/Malays the disparity ratio also rose from 1.7 to 1.8 in the same period[28] The Malays viewed Independence as restoring their proper place in their own country’s socioeconomic order while the non-Malays were opposing government efforts to advance Malay political primacy and economic welfare. The rising tension and resentment of the Malays for the Chinese and vice versa culminated in the vicious riots of 13 May 1969 [29].——————————–
Let us take lesson from other nations’ experiments (eg. the Malaysian experiment), examining the actual effects rather than the goals/rationales, using it as a reference/context as to what is accomplishable within the limits of human society, so as to form realistic expectations of what we could reasonably demand from our government dealing with 56 minorities in different stages of spiritual/material/cultural developments.
And let us openly acknowledge equal outcome for everyone could only be an eternal/utopian goal, a goal of achieving something that has never been achieved before anywhere in the world. But at the mean time, let us endeavor for closer approximation of equal opportunity for all–which by itself would already be a monumental achievement.
2009年 08月8日 15:10
大同是趋势，无法避免的。
2009年 08月8日 18:37
用有色的眼光看陌生的世界，
主观的立场排斥了大多数的无知。
做到客观说事的人不多，
真正了解的人就更少
2009年 08月9日 23:12
Tim, thanks for sharing your opinion.It is kinda interesting to know how westerners think about the issues in Xinjiang.
I couldn’t agree more with your point of “It is very important for the development of Xinjiang for minorities to speak Chinese. It’s the only way to find good jobs.”Because I know there are far too many Chinese students in the US or Australia couldn’t find a job or a good job due to language problems.And I guess that during your stay in Xinjiang, you many have noticed that many Han people had started their businesses in Xinjiang. If they couldn’t understand what the Uyghurs are talking about, how can they suppose to hire them?
However, I find it hard to believe that the government shall implement the Chinese only policy in school.For one thing, it is illegal.It is simply against the law to force minorities give up their own language. For another, it will be incredibly difficult to implement. One classmate of mine who lives in Northern Xinjiang could hardly speak fluent mandarin during the first semester in our university in Beijing!And just think about millions of his fellows who study and live in Xinjiang. Furthermore, the Chinese only policy will undoubtedly stir up anger or even hatred among the Uyghurs. For a government promoting harmonious society, this is the last thing they want to see.So, for me, this is really ridiculous.
As far as I can see, minorities are getting so many privileges in our country that the Han people are sometimes getting unfair treatment.
As for why Xinjiang and Tibet are not so peaceful, one assumption of mine is that they are both close to our border. And their geographical positions are quite important.As a result, foreign forces have interfered in these places for a long time. And these forces, if I may say so, are not always friendly and can be misleading and agitative.
Surely there may be some mistakes in my opinions. I’m just trying to offer another perspective.
2009年 08月10日 14:32
批评很容易，建设大不易。
2009年 08月10日 19:03
[...] are less justifiable. In particular the one related to having all the schools teach solely in Mandarin makes no sense and can only spark resentment among the Uyghurs. The logic of this decision is that [...]
2009年 08月16日 16:53
魏生：
我是一名中学生，如果我的观点有问题，请原谅！
YOU SAID,”He said if students are caught praying they face punishment, even expulsion. A fellow teacher confirmed this later.”
我认为不太正确。我觉得学生祈祷要导致被开除是不是太荒谬了？如果你是来作为桥梁沟通汉、维吾两族，而列出维吾人对汉人的看法，我很欢迎。
但如果是挑拨我们之间的关系，我觉得很不好。
One day I was teaching a group of seniors in college who were looking for jobs. One young man was frustrated because he said he encountered signs at a job fair that said: “Minorities need not apply.”
这个可能会有，不过我觉得是少数人（我想不会只有汉人才会做老板吧）会这样做。多数汉人不会歧视其他民族的，汉人的传统是以和为先，我想应该是少数激进分子的做法吧？
我希望这位魏先生看问题要看全，关于这种敏感话题，从一个方面看就会转牛角尖！
2009年 08月19日 17:47
The saying goes that I would rather sacrifice my life to defend your right to voice your opinion though I do not agree. Mr.Tim, thank you for your concern and feeling of China.
Dear fellows,on the whole,that is just some feeling from a foreign person and I think it is not necessary to take it too seriously as fearing it will cause much misunderstanding of China.
A healthy society should be one containing different feelings, opinions and voices,which is called diversification.We should allow others to give their opinion.We may try to face things in a more open way.But Mr. Tim , we would appriciate if you ,as a foreign observer,could organize and word your language in a more clear way as to avoid unnecessary ambiguity.
I think very importantly, dialogue instead of confrontation is functional in avoiding tragedies like this in Xinjiang.
May you, all those innocent murdered in chaos of Xingjiang, stay in peace in heaven.
2009年 08月19日 23:22
[...] estratti sparsi di post interessanti, tratti da Globalvoices e dal dibattito innescato da “Too late to talk about Xinjiang?” di Wei Yifan (Tim), un insegnante americano che ha vissuto a lungo a Urumqi (consiglio [...]
2009年 08月20日 16:14
[...] alcuni estratti sparsi di post interessanti, tratti da Globalvoices e dal dibattito innescato da “Too late to talk about Xinjiang?” di Wei Yifan (Tim), un insegnante americano che ha vissuto a lungo a Urumqi (consiglio [...]
2009年 08月22日 20:29
作者到美国来看看吧。华人在公立学校是学不到中文的，只有自己掏钱周末送孩子到中文学校。维吾尔族的孩子如在美国就学，大概不会有什么不同。美国的维族人是否会向美国政府抗议？从来没听说过。美国中小学也看不到穿的很“民族特色”的学生，那些学生生怕自己看上去跟别人不一样呢。
efrem1975 Reply:
08月 28th, 2009 at 10:17
您好，您这个类比好像不很适合，一个国家内的另一国移民和在一个国家内的不同民族，两者没有可比性。
efrem1975 Reply:
08月 28th, 2009 at 10:24
I think we have the right to present our different opinion.But it would be wiser not to involve too much irrational and blind nationalism.If we could employ clear logic and evidence, people on the other side would be more ready to accept our voice.
2009年 09月1日 07:21
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2009年 09月11日 14:16
I CAN SAY NOTHING BUT THANK YOU …..BECOUSE I AM UYGHUR…..
THANK YOU VERY MUCH….YOU ARE VERY KIND I TINK …..虽然有点怕但我还是很想讲几句,是的没强迫(用暴力或用武力)…是让我们自己选…但是我们还得考虑将来能不能吃饭的问题…现在维族请少年都往内地…学生不说,其他的不说,你就想一想未成年的未婚的那些女工…现在这么乱…还有很多谣言在流传着…那么小的姑娘们却很高心大胆的自愿的到内地工作,家长同意…太勇敢了吧!?!…
UYGHURS ARE NOT TERRORIST!!!
….谢谢你…建议你多看一些有关新疆评论..你会感觉到给他们讲道理不是很有用,他们讲的也不是什么道理,甚至直接就是骂人….626到75间的网上的评论我听过没看过…也许正如领导说的是些假评论…哎…不多说了…(希望我不会因为讲了这些而受惩罚,我也希望社会公正,稳定生活幸福…没别的思想….)…我觉得现在人类应该有地球人的思想,向地球人发展…..公正,平等,和平!!!….
2009年 09月11日 18:48
我才看到了。。以上有些人的评论。。。想再说个几句。。
学生祈祷被开除，这个不用多讨论你去新疆问一下有没有这样被惩罚过的学生就是了。你知不知到南疆的学校星期五的上课时间跟全国不同？听说过吗？！？。。。有一个还说维族的排斥其他民族的你的这个想法跟我的刚好相反，我一直觉得你们是那样的。你在75前在网上应该看到过不少骂人的。。。吧（就算是626到75间的是假的那以前有没有看到过？） 有的还以小偷为借口，呵，微不足道的原应。。如果拿这样的小借口就可以骂一个民族，那你就给新疆人个说话的权利只要是真的都可以说出来，，，。。。，以我在网上看到的，你们骂别的民族，骂外国人这是很一般的事。。不像我们说个实话，讲个道理，提个建议都先恐后慌的。。。想说不安全不说难受。结果呢就那样破罐子破摔。。。。我也希望社会稳定。。但作为少数民族提个建议，讲讲看法不敢啊。。。。
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2009年 10月1日 21:49
维吾尔族的确是少数民族，但这次干的事情可不象是少数民族能做得出来的。如果没有预先的安排组织，那么多人掉脑袋会是偶然发生的？你这个魏记者还有什么dubious的呢？我看是你内心深处有矛盾吧？你的矛盾在于，你本能地同情少数民族，但你的经验不允许你给予太多的同情，否则何以面对那成河的鲜血呢？但不论怎样，你得挖掘出你内心真正的感受，这才是一个好记者应该做的：保持客观性。
所以先记住一个问题：你感受到那些死于非命的人的痛苦了吗？
凡民族的问题没有用暴力解决的可能，从维吾尔族头头们此次行事来看，他们是极不成熟的；从他们的杀人方式上看，他们的族人是极其野蛮的。新疆的问题，不是民族问题这么简单，而是文明对野蛮的问题。想一想当年西班牙人是怎么对待美洲的印第安人的，就知道两种世界是如何激烈冲突的，所谓野蛮人又付出何等的代价。汉族人并没有让维族人付出印第安人那样的代价，因为汉族人不是另一种野蛮人。在如何做到和谐相处这一点上，汉族人做得要好得多（你举的例子都是假的），真正挑起事端的，一直是维吾尔人。他们的理论是，新疆这片土地是他们的，其实，你翻一下历史就知道，新疆从来也没有独立成国过。
我在新疆长大的，说实话，和维吾尔接触不多，但从小学到中学，周围都有维族人。汉族人学校的维族人有特别出色的，但大多数都不能算是好学生。更重要的是，我们感到他们有一股野劲。比如，你看他一眼，他都要跟你急。虽然是孩子，但体现出维吾尔族人不驯的一面。
如果说恐怖活动是民族问题，那就太小看汉族人了。汉族人在历史上曾被异族人屠戮得很惨，但那些屠杀汉族人的民族反过来都被汉族人同化了，比如满族人，他们现在已经没有活的语言和文字了，你能说这是汉族人的错？维吾尔人将来怎样，不好说，但有一点是肯定的，就是他们永远不要想自成一国，在中国这片土地上是不可能的。他们只有接受现实，和汉族人，以及其他民族兄弟和睦相处。
中国人总是觉得西方人别有用心，其实主要原因是你们不了解历史，只是看到听到那一些，然后就振振有词发表第三方的言论。其实，有时纯粹凭借逻辑，你就能判断出一个大概，搞大屠杀的，再狡辩，也掩盖不了野蛮恐怖的事实，还有最终要付出代价的命运。
2009年 10月13日 22:37
魏一帆同志好像成了众矢之敌,呵呵,你知道是为什么吗?是因为美国人习惯于挑剔政府,言所欲言。但是中国人讲究君子一言九鼎,知之为知之，不知为不知，何况是公布于众的言论，不能像盲人摸象，断章取义。我出生在新疆，在那里长大直到上大学。
我不知道你写这篇文章是出于专栏作者对新闻事件的应付差事还是真的想了解新疆，同情维吾尔族人民，下面是我的一点见解，希望对你和所有关心新疆的人有所帮助。（中文很麻烦吧？“所有（all）,有所（can give some…:-）”
其实中国政府对少数民族真的特别照顾，高考只有我们一半的分数就可以上大学；可以生两个孩子。我们从小到大都和维吾尔人交往，维吾尔小朋友能歌善舞，热情大方，而且特别真诚善良。在习惯于定居在新疆的汉人当中，也都会讲一点维语，也很尊重少数民族的习惯，和睦相处。但是你知道中国太大了，林子大了什么鸟都有，随着市场经济开放政策，人口流动频繁。一些道德文化素质低下的内地打工者和一些自卑心理重又头脑发热易怒的维吾尔族人在互不理解的情况下矛盾被激化，这正是因为他们不会用汉语灵活表达自己的观点而造成的悲剧。（多学一门语言是不是好事？就象我们积极学习英语一样，维吾尔人也热衷于学习汉语，这也是为了他们开阔视野，了解更多更先进的文化知识，难道你学汉语是为了被中国人同化吗？你说的就业难是肯定的，他如果在私企上班，用WORD打个报告或用EXCLE作个表格都作不来，如果你是老板你会用吗？）
至于7.5事件,我想不能代表大多数维吾尔族同胞,哪个国家哪个民族都有一些激端分子,制造事件,其实也不过是为了达到个人的政治目的,没有一个爱孩子的母亲叫孩子去杀人,然后得到偿命的后果。何况挑衅政府只是以卵击石。这么大一个国家，政府也不可能面面俱到，官僚主义和峙强欺弱的人总是不能避免，中国是一个法制国家，少数民族遇到什么问题走法律程序一定会有一个公正的对待，而不该被个别势力所煽动，伤害兄弟民族。中国人崇尚孔子，仁义礼智信，真是放之四海而皆准的立身之道，无论是一个民族还是个人，维吾尔人应该多向其它民族学习，学处世哲学、学科学技术，利用自己的优势，创建自己的特色企业，这才是热爱自己民族的根本行动。就算新疆是唐朝时被汉人占领的龟兹国，奥特曼帝国的辉煌早已灰飞烟灭，追溯历史土耳其还应该是希腊的国土呢。能倒带到十七世纪重划分吗？民族的迁徙、文化的渗透也不是没有好处，如果没有哥伦布发现美洲大陆，今天乔丹也许还在堆土块儿，奥巴马也不可能像今天一样让璀璨耀眼举世瞩目。
中国现行的制度中是有很多的不合理和缺陷，以致于官僚腐败滋生，而过于追求金钱，贫富差距悬殊也给各族人民带来了新的困难，官商勾结，制造泡沫经济，天天歌舞升平，虚假统计数据，文娱界和政府官员赚得金银满钵，国资企业挥金如土投资地产股市，制造业也是弄虚作假、投机取巧，中国正坚定不移地顺着格林斯潘式的用泡沫拯救经济的方针，沿着美国和日本走向经济危机的道路大步向前走。所以这才是我们所最担心的。
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